Interview
In this episode of CMSWire's CMO Circle, Managing Editor Dom Nicastro sits down with Kathie Johnson, the newly appointed CMO of Sitecore, to explore her strategies for success in her new role. Kathie shares her detailed 30-60-90 day plan for onboarding, emphasizing the importance of focusing on people, processes, and performance. As a seasoned marketer with a background in both analytics and storytelling, Kathie discusses the art and science of marketing and the pivotal role AI plays in shaping modern marketing strategies.
From building relationships with her team to staying abreast of industry trends, Kathie provides valuable insights for CMOs and marketers alike. Tune in to gain valuable perspectives from a CMO navigating the dynamic landscape of marketing in 2024.
The Gist
- Strategic onboarding approach. New CMOs should focus on three key pillars during onboarding: people, process and performance.
- In-person vs. remote relationship-building. While remote communication can be effective, in-person interactions still hold unique value, especially for relationship-building.
- Constant communication & clarity. Over-communication and clarity are essential for successful leadership transitions, ensuring alignment and reducing ambiguity.
Episode Highlights
Kathie Johnson's Strategic Onboarding Approach
1:30 - Kathie Johnson emphasizes the importance of starting with the right foot forward in a new role, outlining a detailed 30-60-90-day plan focusing on people, process and performance.
In-Person vs. Remote Relationship-Building
4:33 - The discussion explores the value of in-person interactions versus remote communication for relationship-building and team cohesion in a distributed workforce environment.
Constant Communication & Clarity
6:33 - Kathie stresses the significance of over-communicating and providing clarity as a leader, fostering consistent communication and celebrating team successes to mitigate ambiguity.
Choosing the CMO Role at Sitecore
10:49 - Kathie shares insights into her decision to join Sitecore, highlighting the attractiveness of the MarTech space and the opportunity to make a significant impact as a CMO.
Transition From Pre-Med to Marketing
12:28 - Kathie reflects on her unconventional career path, transitioning from a pre-med track to marketing, leveraging her blend of analytical and storytelling skills in her current role.
AI's Changes to the CMO Role
15:35 - Kathie discusses the impact of AI on the role of a CMO, emphasizing the importance of staying abreast of trends and leveraging AI technologies to inform marketing strategies.
Alignment of Marketing Community and Market Trends
16:20 - Kathie and Dom explore the supportive nature of the marketing community and the significance of staying connected to industry trends and insights for effective marketing leadership.
Episode Transcript
Michelle Hawley: Hi everyone, Michelle Hawley, Senior Editor at CMSWire, here with our latest edition of CMO Circle. This time, Managing Editor Dom Nicastro sits down with Sitecore’s newest CMO, Kathie Johnson.
Dom Nicastro: Hey everybody, Dom Nicastro, Managing Editor of CMSWire.com. And we're here for our latest CMO Circle interview. It's going to be Kathie Johnson of Sitecore. Very new CMO for Sitecore. Kathie, how’re you doing?
Kathie Johnson: I'm doing awesome — living the dream job. How are you? It's great to be here.
Dom: Awesome to have you. It is basically, at this point of the recording, CMSWire’s second business day of the year. So I'm still trying to figure out how to do my job. You’re kind of in that perch too. I mean, you got hired by Sitecore — announcement came out in late November. So here we are at the time of this recording barely a month or two into the gig. We're going to talk about how that works. How do you onboard yourself? How do you meet your team and just kind of get your feet wet as a CMO? How do you find being a new CMO? The challenge is to kind of be successful early in your role, like what happens in these 30 to 60 days?
The Three Pillars of Onboarding
Kathie: I love that question, Dom, because it's so important to start with the right foot forward as you start with a new company. I built out a very detailed 30- 60- 90-day plan, which is all about the three pillars that I feel are so important when you're onboarding: people, process — which includes tools — and performance. And I spend a lot of time digging in.
Pillar One: People
On the people side, I spent a lot of time meeting all the EL team members, spending time with the ML team members, or marketing leadership team, meeting one-on-one with other key members around the organization. I even hold roundtables — so I've been flying around going to all the different Sitecore offices, and holding roundtables with my team. It's really this amazingly important time for absorption. You haven't drunk the Kool Aid yet, right? So it's really good to be gathering those insights.
That’s sort of the people side, and I'm looking for, where are there opportunities for improvement? Where's upskilling needed? Who are the members of your team? What are their dreams and passions? How can you help them do the best work of their careers? That's the people side.
Pillar Two: Process
And then there's also the process and technology side. What are the different processes we have in place? What are the tools? Do we have a full MarTech stack? What's missing? And of course, when you're in the Martech stack, are you using all of your own tools? Are you drinking your own champagne, right? And how can you improve that? And then really looking at, what are the processes you need in place?
I'm a big believer in this thing that I call circles of influence, and I build my cadence plan all around three different circles of influence. And that really dictates how much time I should spend with each person to really be the best operator so that I can be the best strategist I can be.
Pillar Three: Performance
And then the third is all around performance. Gosh, really digging in. My team heard it from me on day one, I don't really care about pipeline. I do. But I really care about pipeline that closes one, right? The rest of it, do we really care? It could be wasted money, maybe it'll come further down with a longer tail. But I really focus in on what's working and what's not working from pipeline perspective. But then also messaging and positioning — are we differentiated?
So really looking at all the key pillars around performance, and really trying to understand the business so that, after that, you're in that midst of that onboarding, you can really put together your plan? And once you have all those three pillars understood, you can do that well.
Related Article: Inside the Mind of the Modern Chief Marketing Officer
In-Person vs. Remote Relationship-Building
Dom: So you put a lot of investment, and the company has, into you actually meeting these folks and these new team members in person. That's different. I mean, obviously, the travel, everyone can do it now and we can all travel freely again. But do you find there's a big difference in meeting a new team virtually than it is in person? Are there significant differences there?
Kathie: It's such a good question. I would like to say no, because we have so many employees who are remote. My prior company was a remote-first company and I believe that I was able to build a really strong team even being remote. So I would like to say no — but we're also humans. You know, like walking in and giving a hug to someone on your team, congratulating them in person. Nothing tops that, but I don't think it has to be in person. It’s lovely, but I don't think it has to be — we do have a lot of remote employees as well.
Dom: Yeah, I'm with you on that one too. I mean, I think you can bond or work together well in any environment, if you have the right cohesion, and you respect each other, and you work hard and you get there. It doesn't matter if you're remote or in-person — but it's nice to go to lunch with someone, you know? It just is. You can get those quirks and talk about your personal lives and stuff like that. So it's definitely a fair share of that going on.
Constant Communication & Clarity
Dom: Now, you're the new kid, right? So you're going to come in and do a lot of listening, obviously. But there's also going to be a time where you're like, okay, Kathie Johnson is going to impart some ideas here. That's what my CEO hired me to do, and I'm going to do it. I'm going to talk about my philosophy, my strategies, how I handle data, all that, and you're gonna do that with your marketing teams, with your other executive teams. So, how do you do that? How do you come in and say, “Hey, this is my way of thinking, let's work together on this?” How do you do that? People are afraid of change.
Kathie: That’s such a true comment, people are afraid of change. And I do try to keep that in my mind. And honestly, they're most afraid when there's an absence of communication, or an absence of clarity. Because then, as Brené Brown would say, people create their own stories, right? The stories we tell ourselves.
Over-Communication Is Key
So I do believe in over-communicating from the very beginning. I think, as a leader, we need to give clarity, we need to ensure we have really consistent communication and we need to celebrate our team, even small or big successes. So really in the clarity perspective, I have already started sharing: What are my key priorities? What are the findings I have found so far? And what am I going to personally be invested in? And then communicating that constantly.
I start communication from the very beginning, like I have a playbook. I've been doing a playbook for many, many years. Right when I started, that was my first post to all of marketing: hey, here's my playbook, it tells you what frustrates me, what makes me tick, how to communicate with me. It tells you what my philosophy is. All decisions should be made based on ship, shipmates, self — company-first. You make a decision with the company in mind, I will support you. So sharing that from the very beginning.
Focus on Consistency in Communication
And then, having these one-on-ones, I send a weekly top-of-mind to my team telling them what I'm thinking about, what am I focused on, maybe something cool that I've just discovered.And then constant repetition. Dom, we all know the old adage, it takes seven times to remember something. We have to remember, we can't just communicate once, right? There's such a barrage of noise that everybody is experiencing. Let's ensure we're being consistent in our communication and incredibly clear, and asking for that feedback.
I'll tell you, every time I meet with my boss, the CEO, I'll be like, “Steve, give me feedback. What's good, what's not good? What do I need to change?” That feedback is so important, because I'm embedding myself in a company that already exists.
Dom: I have to thank you, because you just gave me the best out and excuse with my wife, because it takes seven times to get something.
Kathie: Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
Dom: Listen, she's asked me seven times to put together something or fix this or fix that. Seven times. I have an excuse now. Seven times.
Kathie: Dom, what's your wife's name?
Dom: Pam.
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Kathie: Pam, I'm sorry. That's not what I meant.
Dom: Alright, I'll trickle that down by six. One time it should take for the husband to get it. I get it. Okay. If I get that, I'll be okay. Alright. So one for the wife but seven in business. I get it. I get it.
Related Article: Preparing CMOs for the Next Decade of Marketing Leadership
Choosing the CMO Role
Dom: So, let's talk about Sitecore. Why Sitecore, why this industry? You had to be attracted to something with the company, something with the industry. This is a tough market. I mean, we cover the market. So we know how many competitors are in there. I mean, I go into my inbox today, there's probably seven DXP vendors pitching something — or their PR folks. And it's so tough to separate yourself from the crowd. So why the investment in such a really competitive software space?
Kathie: Oh, that's such a good question. I really love that question. I spent a lot of time reflecting on what I wanted to do next. We can all choose the career journey we want to be on, or at least focus and point ourselves in that direction. And one of the things, Dom, I was starting to see in the market is this trend that's happening where so many CMOs are reporting into COOs or presidents or even CROs now. Right? And that frightens me a little bit. In many cases, the CMO was still strategic, still has a seat at the table. But I'm wondering, what's going to happen if that trend progresses.
In contrast, you look at something like Martech, right? Who are you selling to? You're selling to CMOs. When you're selling to CMOs, then the CMO will always be strategic, will always have a seat at the table, because you're a personification of that audience you're targeting. So I really decided, kind of looking at what was happening out in the market, that I wanted to go into the Martech space. I hadn't done Martech space before, and I'm always into learning, so that's an opportunity for me to learn. That's kind of how I honed into that industry.
Why Sitecore Checks All the Boxes
And then why Sitecore? Some of the things I look at, as many people do, is there strong technology? Check. Is the leadership strong? Check. And then also as a CMO, is there an opportunity for me to make an impact? My values are family, impact, and joy. I have to make an impact everywhere I go. And I could see that I could make an impact there. So I was like, check.
So it was in the Martech space, CMO, strategic and checked all the boxes in terms of technology, people and opportunity to make an impact. And that's how I selected Sitecore.
Dom: Yeah, the marketing community and the market is really, like, have each other's backs. You see this on LinkedIn, there's passionate posts. And when a CMO talks, other CMOS weigh in. I'm sure you'll even have some fellow SaaS CMO friends that you gain, even though you're competing with them in a healthy manner in the market.
But yeah, I love that. We do love that at CMSWire, following the marketing talk, there's no shortage of insights. And if I get a CMO that says. “You know, I'm not comfortable talking to anybody.” Nope, never the case. They always want to come out and talk about the company, themselves, being a marketer.
From Pre-Med to Marketing
Dom: That kind of segues into my next question about being a marketer. Is that something you always did? Because I know a lot of marketers kind of get into marketing late in their career, but some of them are right from the get go. Where did you fall? And why marketing?
Kathie: So I have sort of a funny or interesting path. And it's interesting, because you made the comment that many people don't start marketing, and I didn't. I was a math and science geek. Like I loved math and science. I was going to be a doctor, I was going to be pre med, went away to college as pre med, and quickly discovered that I faint at the sight of blood. Like I am out cold.
Dom: And that wasn’t good for a pre med track? You didn't like blood?
Kathie: Can you imagine? So I had to make such an incredibly hard pivot. How do you decide what you're going to go do next? And I actually decided to go where I was weakest at the time, which was English, and really then had a degree in English. In fact, my senior year paper thesis was on the strength of women and Shakespearean literature. How different from premed could you get it, right?
Marketing Blends Science and Art
But the beautiful part of this is that it combines — you think about marketing, it's the blend of science and art. I have this deep analytical data-informed mind. But at the same time, this developed mind that has a passion for storytelling, and writing and content. And look, I'm in the content space now. It's really such a beautiful blend. I've had other leaders say to me in the past, “Kathie I don’t understand how you can go so deep in the data, and you can go so deep in the PR, and you can go so deep into the content.” And it's because I really was fortunate enough to have developed both sides, left and right, and have an equal passion for both.
So, I thought I'd be a doctor. And here I am today at Sitecore.
Dom: You make a great point about the art and science combination, because I can see you and other CMO leaders in one half of the day, being in a spreadsheet and just looking at numbers for hours. And then the next half of the day you’re like, I don't like the color in that email. Right? Because it's art and science. It's like, what's going on? What's going to tell the story of our brand the best way possible, that customers and prospects get a sense of, I think this company can help us, you know? Is a lot of your day splitting up that kind of dynamic?
Kathie: Absolutely. I mean, I start every morning looking at the data, right? That's how I start: where am I today? Where am I going? But yeah, by day we’ll go back and forth between data and content and visuals. Look at marketing — marketing is such a tremendously large part. It's probably one of the most complex roles out there if you think about the diversity within the role. So absolutely agree with you, the day can be all over the place between science and art.
AI’s Changes to the CMO Role
Dom: Let's get to the finish line here. How about AI's impact in your role? Not so much what's Sitecore offering with AI, but in your role as a CMO. Has AI had an impactful change in your role? How so, if that's the case? And where can you see it playing out?
Kathie: Yeah, I love this question, because you know, Dom. I'm old. And so I was in marketing when the internet came out. And I remember partnering with the head of IT at the time and saying, “We should build a website.” And the company we were working for at the time was like, “Yeah, I don't know, it's a little risky. You know, what does this mean?” It's exactly the same dialogue that's happening in AI today.
That there's opportunity, and there's risk. How do you act professionally recognizing all the privacy and things that are so important? So it feels like a repeat of that, reliving that moment. But in general, let me back up — in general first, marketers must stay on top of trends. You know, one of the stories my daughters and I — I have a 24- and 22-year-old — often laugh about is that I was the one who told them about TikTok when it first came out. And they both said to me, and I quote, “Nobody would use that. Today, my daughter's make their buying decisions based on TikTok.
Dom: Oh, my wife, Pam does 100%. 100%. And I'm not deeply on it, but she'll share with me a million things. And I don't do Google anymore. Like, what is this drive-in like? No, you go on TikTok with some amateur person did an amazing video cut up of their experience at the drive-thru?
Marketers Tune Into Gen Z
Kathie: Absolutely. That is definitely when you talk about Gen Z, it's a whole new world, right? They're influenced by influencers, influenced by TikTok. It's so different on how they make their decisions. From a technology perspective, as marketers, we just need to stay abreast of these things, right? Because they impact or could impact or could inspire us for what we might do. So AI is like this, we as marketers need to understand it, and need to spend time on it.
One of the things I did at my last company was as soon as it came out, I started a Gen AI tiger team. Like, let's be on top of this, let's decide as a group, what are we going to test first? How are we going to test? How are we going to measure? What are we going to do second? So as an example, the first thing we focused on was campaigns. If you write a landing page and use Gen AI, then to create all of that other content that comes off of it, be it social, email, all that, they saved hours per campaign doing that.
So the same thing at Sitecore, as soon as I joined it’s like, let's get a Gen AI tiger team together, let's define all of the areas. And yes, we have AI embedded in our products. So we use those as well, and it’s fantastic. But so as marketers, we have to stay abreast of it. We have to use it. We have to learn about it. And we have to test it. And of course, we also have to be cognizant of the risk that comes with it and be smart about how we use it as well.
Dom: Yeah. And Dave O’Flanagan of Sitecore actually gave us a nice talk. We did a podcast with him and some other vendors about how AI is infusing the DXP and stuff like that. So, maybe we'll get a little link to that podcast where some of the leading vendors are talking about that. It was a very interesting podcast, for sure.
Related Article: CMOs Report 5 Effects of AI on the Role
Wrapping Up
But we're done here. And I can't thank you enough.
Kathie: Are we done, Dom? Really?
Dom: I know, I want to go on forever. You know, your daughters would probably tell you, “Mom, this is like 15 minutes, you need to make this 15 seconds.” That's how people would consume our video, right? In like a chunk of like five frames that took 30 seconds. That's the new thing, the kids are telling us that it's hot. We should listen, like you said earlier.
But Kathie Johnson, Sitecore CMO. Best of luck in your new role, getting your feet wet and barely started. And we hope you have a great 2024. Thanks for joining us on the CMSWire CMO Circle.
Kathie: Thank you so much for having me, Dom. It was really fun. Really appreciate it..
Dom: Best of luck. Take care..
Kathie: You too. Take care. Bye bye.
Michelle: That's all for this month’s CMO Circle. Thank you for watching and don't forget to check back next month for an all new episode.
